(2 Nephi 25:23–24, 26, 29) This sure knowledge of Christ, had by the Lehites, was tied to the bedrock of the personal testimonies of at least four prophets who had actually seen the Savior. (2 Nephi 25:23, 26) There is no other way to be saved than through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ. But a certain amount of works (i.e., the best we have to offer) are necessary to trigger God’s grace and mercy. In this paper, I offer a theological interpretation of 2 Nephi 25:23 that is distinct from any other in the relevant literature. 1. In a later general conference talk, Lee also said, “Truly we are redeemed by the atoning blood of the Savior of the world, but only after each has done all he can to work out his own salvation” (Conference Reports, October 1970, p. 116). All the pain and travail of previous generations will be turned to joy. 2 Nephi 31:5-12. Cited in The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, pp. Posted in Mormon Dilemmas, tagged 2 Nephi 25:23 vs. Ephesians 2:8-9, bible, Book of Mormon, false doctrines, false prophets, Jesus, mormonism, Salvation by grace or works on 02/04/2012| Leave a Comment » Salvation by What? In a first section, I highlight a number of ambiguities in Nephi's words that have not been sufficiently noted. Imagine you are an Israelite living during the time of Moses and the poisonous snakes. By his grace, we live and breathe. At first glance this passage seems to agree with 2 Nephi 25:23, but one of the basic principles of biblical hermeneutics (the interpretation of scripture) is that scripture within the Bible (and in LDS theology and scriptures, if it is true) cannot contradict itself. In traditional Mormonism, grace is provided to all humanity because of obedience accomplished in Mormonism’s preexistence (i.e., all human chose Jesus rather than Lucifer to be the savior of the world). LDS 2 Nephi 25:23 Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Hammster, Aug 2, 2016. Certainly there have been leaders who have minimized the works, such as former general authority Tad R. Callister, who cited the verse and then wrote the following in his popular book The Infinite Atonement: In other words, we contribute to our salvation, but we do not earn it. All of the principles of the gospel are principles of promise by which the plans of the Almighty are unfolded to us” “All we have to do in order to be prepared to enter the presence of the Lord is to forsake our sins, come unto Him, call on His name, obey His voice, and keep His commandments; then we shall be able to see His face and to know that He is” (Harold B. Lee, Stand Ye in Holy Places: Selected Sermons and Writings of President Harold B. Lee, p. 246) See also Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Harold B. Lee, p. 24). Cited in The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, pp. The way too simple / easy and represents Jesus Christ. I was unaware that the church newsroom had doctrinal tidbits in there (thanks CV75 for pointing in that direction) and as I was browsing I came upon the entry for Grace. My daughter Carissa has a master’s degree in English. In a first section, I highlight a number of ambiguities in Nephi's words that have not been sufficiently noted. “After all we can do” means clothing the naked, feeding the hungry, visiting the sick and giving “succor [to] those who stand in need of [our] succor” (Mosiah 4:15)—remembering that what we do unto one of the least of God’s children, we do unto Him (see Matthew 25:34-40; D&C 42:38). Misinterpreting this verse and changing its natural (and traditional) meaning only leads to confusion for those who aim is to understand what the Book of Mormon is saying. 2 Nephi 25:23 in the Book of Mormon states: “it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” Many Mormons say this verse doesn’t teach that salvation is based on grace and works. For example, the ordinance of baptism is given us for the remission of sins, for entrance into the kingdom–a new birth; the gift of the Holy Ghost gives us the right to companionship with one of the Godhead; administration to the sick qualified the individual with faith for a special blessing; by paying our tithing, the windows of heaven may be opened unto us; by fasting and by praying our fast offerings, we are told that then we might call on the Lord and He will hear our cry and our call; celestial marriage promises us that family life will exist beyond the grave. According to Reynolds and Sjodahl, Babylon was one of the great cities of the ancient world, perhaps the greatest. Here is what she told me: After taking a college and graduate level grammar course, I’ll admit I had to google “preposition of separation,” but after reading up on it, I don’t think it means what he thinks it means. Ellipsis in original). I was interested in (and happy with) their use of 2 Ne. In imitation of; as, to make a thing after a model. According to the English dictionary contemporary with Joseph Smith and the production of the Book of Mormon, the meaning of “after” as a preposition has the following meanings: After I have arisen, I will go before you into Galilee. Nephi . It may be regarded as the ‘Mormon’ contribution to views of the Atonement of Christ, for it is to be found no where else except in Mormon literature.’ The perfect relationship between the atoning grace of Christ and the obedient efforts of mankind is powerfully stated by Nephi: ‘We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do’ (2 Nephi 25:23). We cannot be saved by grace alone, “for we know that it is by grace that we are saved after all we can do” (Ensign (Conference Edition), November 2001, p. 18). He cites 2 Nephi 25:23 as support for his assessment, but also 1 Nephi 13:40, in which the angel who asks Nephi, “Knowest thou the condescension of God?” (1 Nephi 11:16), repudiates the notion of a shared responsibility for salvation. Tag: 2 Nephi 25:23 After “all” the Bishop Could Do, it Wasn’t Enough. Book Review: The Divine Gift of Forgiveness by Apostle Neil L. Andersen. In my opinion, Verse 23 is best read in light of the entire chapter rather than quoted by itself in isolation. Romans 8:1. “We are saved by grace behind in place after all we can do”—this doesn’t fit. But what Nephi is actually writing here is a very Pauline-like statement to his children and brethren that even after all they can do under the law of Moses, which they must … One leader who did not mince his words was the eleventh president of the church, Harold B. Lee. My intention is to provide a three-pronged approach to interpreting the passage. Combine that truth with the love we feel for our children, our parents, our siblings, cousins, nieces, nephews, and many other people, and we have a powerful motivation to testify more frequently and in more different venues. @Deadworm, I thank you for your words and presence on this forum. The name Jacob is explained as "supplanter" in the King James Bible of Genesis 27:36 (compare Genesis 25:23-26), but could just as easily be read "successor" or "replacement," since Jacob replaced Esau as firstborn and received the birthright and the blessing (see Genesis 25:29-34; 27:22-40). Consider the other citations where Lee referenced this verse: “‘For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.’ (2 Nephi 25:23.) Thread Status: Not open for further replies. Thoughts? “After all we can do” means leading chaste, clean, pure lives, being scrupulously honest in all our dealings and treating others the way we would want to be treated (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 354. (2 Nephi 25:23) When it comes to support of “preposition of time,” the second definition seems to fit. Jesus also atoned not only for Adam’s transgressions but for the sins of all mankind. If the real Nephi of 2 Nephi 25:23 does not “stand up” in the hearts and minds of Latter-day Saints, then we are going to continue to suffer from the same unacknowledged exegetical problem that has plagued us for more than a generation, damaged the otherwise sturdy soteriological bridge between the Book of Mormon and the New Testament, and constructed an unnecessary and foolish barrier between us and many non-Mormon … I love 2 Nephi 25:23- 'That it is by Grace that we are saved'- such a great lesson for this week! Then I gave him a hint. According to the direction and influence of. According to; as, consider a thing after its intrinsic value. Second Nephi 25:23 continues to emphasize the necessity of obedience to the commandments of God for a person to obtain exaltation and godhood. Father Lehi the heavens open and “he saw One descending out of the midst of heaven, and he beheld that his luster was above that of the sun at noon-day” (1 Nephi 1:9). You must keep the laws and ordinances of Christ. A-A; A+; 2 Ne 22 though thou wast angry with me thine anger is turned away. After all, the Bible teaches that there is nothing a person can do to earn God’s favor, no matter how much effort is exerted. I served on the Seminary Council and one of my assignments was to speak in Sacrament Meeting. Shall Be As When God Overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah: In 2 Nephi 23:19-22 we find a prophecy of the destruction of Babylon. Those are the best examples I could find that MIGHT fit the word “after”…but they don’t. Note: The following was originally printed in the November/December 2018 edition of Mormonism Researched. To understand just how unclear Nephis words are, a few interpretive questions, none of which has any obvious answer, might be asked: 1. Shall Be As When God Overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah: In 2 Nephi 23:19-22 we find a prophecy of the destruction of Babylon. Ellipsis in original). ☼ 2 Nephi 25:23: For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. The poisonous snakes can represent things we don’t want to give up or sins. "All that we could do [was to] repent of all our sins (2 Nephi 25:23) 4. “When you think about it, there is so much promised in the gospel for so little required on our part. 2 Nephi 25:23–24, 27. Notice that there is no understanding of “in spite of” all a person could do in this interpretation. 25:232 Nephi 25:23 to be a preposition of separation rather than a preposition of time. 2 Nephi 25:23 “For we labor d iligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” — 2 Nephi 25:23. The reason we can say that is that God Himself does not change--He isn't wishy, washy. And I agree with the same conclusion. Come Unto Christ. (25) 2 Nephi 25:23 – A comment. “Believe in Christ and to Be Reconciled to God”, “For We Know That It Is by Grace That We Are Saved”, “We Know That It Is by Grace That We Are Saved”, It is by Grace That We Are Saved, After All We Can Do, “For We Know That It Is by Grace That We Are Saved After All We Can Do”, “It Is by Grace That We Are Saved After All We Can Do”, “It is by Grace That We Are Saved After All We Can Do”. [Arthur A. Bailey, "What Modern Revelation Teaches About Adam," in The Ensign, January 1998, pp. Later in time; as, after supper. What would the Lord accomplish with "a marvelous work and a wonder"? Nephi explains how in 2 Nephi 25-26. Before citing 2 Nephi 25:23, Lee explained, “But all of these blessings are ours on one condition, and this is spoken of by Nephi” (Conference Reports, April 1956, p. 111). Thus works alone cannot save us; grace is an absolute prerequisite. Exaltation only occurs when a person has “obedience to gospel law.” It is not. And behold, in thy childhood thou hast suffered afflictions and much sorrow, because of the rudeness of thy brethren. (2 Nephi 25:4) 2. (2 Nephi 25:23, 26) There is no other way to be saved than through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ. 2 Nephi Chapter 25 « Previous Next » ... 2 Ne 25:23-30 . Annotation for 2 Ne 25:23-30 above 30 And, inasmuch as it shall be expedient, ye must keep the performances and ordinances of God until the law shall be fulfilled which was given unto Moses. 91-92). At a recent church meeting where I spoke about The Miracle of Forgiveness evangelistic approach described in a chapter found in Sharing the Good News with Mormons (Kregel, 2018), two young male LDS missionaries approached my table and we began to talk. Hey Friends! “After all we can do” includes extending our best effort. (Harold B. Lee, Stand Ye in Holy Places: Selected Sermons and Writings of President Harold B. Lee, pp. Doesn’t the book of James say that “faith without works is dead”? What is meant by “after all we can do”? Nephi put this principle in a tremendous orbit when he said, ‘For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do’ (2 Nephi 25:23). I explained how I enjoy giving away 12th President Spencer Kimball’s book to Latter-day Saints walking to events sponsored by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, including General Conference sessions, temple open house events, and BYU football games. “Actually, I understand the preposition ‘after’ in ”2 Ne. He further explains the future of the Jews as well as the restoration of the gospel in the last days. The question we must ask is what did Joseph Smith, the “translator” of the Book of Mormon, mean when he wrote the word “after” in this verse? The knowlege of the Messiah will be preserved. In pursuit of, that is, moving behind, following; in search of. To judge after the sight of the eye. 2 Nephi 25:23 in Literary and Rhetorical Context Daniel O. McClellan For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. Furthermore, we are invited to ‘come unto Christ, and be perfected in him.’ When we deny ourselves ‘of all ungodliness,’ then and only ‘then is his grace sufficient’ for us (Moroni 10:32)” (“Plain and Precious Truths Restored,” Ensign, October 2006, p. 53. LDS 2 Nephi 25:23 Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Hammster, Aug 2, 2016. Its walls were, for height and width, one of the wonders of the world. . ☼ For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. The Lord will not again forsake his people. 2 Nephi 25:23, of course, contains the famous verbal formula, “we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” Latter-day Saints of varying theological stripes frequently treat this formulation as providing a resolution of debates regarding grace and works, although the resolution they see the text as pointing toward varies. “After all we can do” includes loving our fellowmen and praying for those who regard us as their adversary. As we talked, I referenced 2 Nephi 25:23. Cited in The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, p. 186). Read v. 20 . Baptism the gate to the strait and narrow path. “Elder B.H. . 2 Nephi 25:23. 25:23 at the end. For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.2 … . While Robinson and other Latter-day Saints might like the idea that they are “saved by grace” “in spite of” all they can do, this has not been the view of LDS leaders throughout the history of the church. All the pain and travail of previous generations will be turned to joy. 2 Nephi 25:30. Based on what Burton said, the phrase “after all we can do” as described in 2 Nephi 25:23 is a direct reference to “individual salvation,” also known as exaltation, eternal life, and godhood. Perhaps as much as praying for mercy, we should pray for time and opportunity to work and strive and overcome. Don’t you let anyone try to persuade you to any other doctrine than that. 2 Nephi 30:1-2. Surely the Lord smiles upon one who desires to come to judgment worthily, who resolutely labors day by day to replace weakness with strength. Other leaders have agreed with Lee’s interpretation of the verse, including: Apostle David A. Bednar (after citing 2 Nephi 25:23): “Certainly, ‘we believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel’ (Articles of Faith 1:3)” (David A. Bednar, “Therefore They Hushed Their Fears,” Ensign (Conference Edition), May 2015, p. 49). notwithstanding, 2 Nephi 25:23 is a difficult text, and one that deserves close reading. Taken at face value, the idea that believers are saved by grace “in spite of all we can do” seems to be biblical. The use of 2 Nephi 25:23 as raw material for theological reflection about the relationship between grace and works creates no end of trouble for Mormons, although many of us seem unaware of the difficulties. He cites 2 Nephi 25:23 as support for his assessment, but also 1 Nephi 13:40, in which the angel who asks Nephi, “Knowest thou the condescension of God?” (1 Nephi 11:16), repudiates the notion of a shared responsibility for salvation. 25:23. is the use of the word . What happens if the Spirit of the Lord ceases to strive with man? Based on what Burton said, the phrase “after all we can do” as described in 2 Nephi 25:23 is a direct reference to “individual salvation,” also known as exaltation, eternal life, and godhood. Baptism in the name of Christ. Thirteenth President Ezra Taft Benson explained his interpretation of “after all we can do” when he said. The Savior’s blood, His atonement, will save us, but only after we have done all we can to save ourselves by keeping His commandments. “We are saved by grace according to all we can do”—even if this fit, it still would contradict Robinson’s interpretation. . Your generous support makes the work of MRM possible. 2 Nephi 25:23-26. The sense is that apart from all we can do, it is ultimately by the grace of Christ that we are saved. I showed her the argument made by Robinson and asked for her opinion. Why did most not look at the Brass serpent that would save them and what did the Brass serpent represent? Some of the ways they try to explain away its clear message can only be described as bizarre. To request a free subscription, please visit here. We tend to focus on the last phrase “after all we can do” as the important part of this verse. Nephi’s statement “it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23) has been the source of much discussion among Latter-day Saints. 25:23 it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do . But in order for these supreme blessings to be effective in our lives, we should first do our part, ‘for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.’ Let us with faith, enthusiasm, dedication, responsibility, and love do all that is within our reach, and we will be doing all that is possible to achieve the impossible—that is, to achieve what for the human mind is impossible but with the divine intervention of our loving Father and the infinite sacrifice brought about by our Savior becomes the greatest gift, the most glorious of realities, to live forever with God and with our families” (“Attempting the Impossible,” Ensign (Conference Edition), November 2009, p. 34). (25) 2 Nephi 25:23 – A comment. Grace is not merely a decorative touch or a finishing bit of trim to top off our own efforts—it is God’s participation in the process of our salvation from its beginning to … In this paper, I offer a theological interpretation of 2 Nephi 25:23 that is distinct from any other in the relevant literature. How important to the interpretation of . In 2 Nephi 25, Nephi prophesies of the fate of the Jews-their rejection of the Savior, their scatterings and scourgings, and their eventual repentance. As much as I think he wishes it did. (2 Nephi 25:23–24, 26, 29) This sure knowledge of Christ, had by the Lehites, was tied to the bedrock of the personal testimonies of at least four prophets who had actually seen the Savior. The commandments of God for a person to obtain exaltation and godhood own posterity that will be turned joy. The November/December 2018 edition of Mormonism Researched a theological interpretation of “ after we... 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